http://tinyurl.com/37qd8w

For those who may be in the market for a decent pilot watch, this
Timex Expedition is the best one I could find with all the features I
wanted, for a reasonable ($54) price.

It's got dual (actually triple) time with Zulu time accessible at the
push of a button, countdown and -up timers, several reminder alarms, a
built-in digital compass (that actually seems to work), and it's all
easily readable with my old(er) eyes.

The buttons are big, and the menu system is more intuitive than my
previous watch, which was also a Timex Expedition (but a different
model/version). It's pure digital, rather than analog/digital like I
wanted, but I discovered that if I wanted Zulu time easily accessible
without screwing up the date, pure digital was the only option.

I looked at every pilot's watch out there, up to and including the
Citizen, Torgoen, and all the other "hot shot pilot" watches, and IMHO
they all suck. What blew me away was how you could easily spend as
much as $5K on a watch that was absollutely not usable for telling
time! To me, that's just an IQ test waiting to be failed...

For $54, this relatively simple watch has every feature (well, except
for an altimeter) that a pilot could want, a comfortable band, and it
even looks decent. Best of all, I can buy roughly 100 of these watches
for the cost of a single "real" pilot's watch!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/37qd8w
>
> For those who may be in the market for a decent pilot watch, this
> Timex Expedition is the best one I could find with all the features I
> wanted, for a reasonable ($54) price.
>
> It's got dual (actually triple) time with Zulu time accessible at the
> push of a button, countdown and -up timers, several reminder alarms, a
> built-in digital compass (that actually seems to work), and it's all
> easily readable with my old(er) eyes.
>
> The buttons are big, and the menu system is more intuitive than my
> previous watch, which was also a Timex Expedition (but a different
> model/version). It's pure digital, rather than analog/digital like I
> wanted, but I discovered that if I wanted Zulu time easily accessible
> without screwing up the date, pure digital was the only option.
>
> I looked at every pilot's watch out there, up to and including the
> Citizen, Torgoen, and all the other "hot shot pilot" watches, and IMHO
> they all suck. What blew me away was how you could easily spend as
> much as $5K on a watch that was absollutely not usable for telling
> time! To me, that's just an IQ test waiting to be failed...
>
> For $54, this relatively simple watch has every feature (well, except
> for an altimeter) that a pilot could want, a comfortable band, and it
> even looks decent. Best of all, I can buy roughly 100 of these watches
> for the cost of a single "real" pilot's watch!
>
> ;-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

I'm with you Jay. I have a Brietling vintage pilot's chronograph sitting
upstairs unused now for over 40 years. It's heavy, I have to wind it,
and it's always a possible loss of thousands of dollars if misplaced or
stolen.
Pilots just don't need these anchors on their wrist any more; not with
modern time technology. I have a digital that keeps absolutely perfect
time. I think it cost me 20 bucks years ago.
DH

--
Dudley Henriques

On Nov 15, 2:37 pm, Dudley Henriques > wrote:

> I'm with you Jay. I have a Brietling vintage pilot's chronograph sitting
> upstairs unused now for over 40 years. It's heavy, I have to wind it,
> and it's always a possible loss of thousands of dollars if misplaced or
> stolen.
> Pilots just don't need these anchors on their wrist any more; not with
> modern time technology. I have a digital that keeps absolutely perfect
> time. I think it cost me 20 bucks years ago.
> DH
>

But Dudley, the fancy "pilot watch" is part of the uniform (costume?)
You can't call yourself a real pilot if you don't have The Watch. You
know, one of those expensive, multi-faced hunks of unobtanium with a
built in ELT that makes women swoon and lesser pilots envious.

On Nov 14, 11:51 pm, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/37qd8w
>
> For those who may be in the market for a decent pilot watch, this
> Timex Expedition is the best one I could find with all the features I
> wanted, for a reasonable ($54) price.
> .......
> model/version). It's pure digital, rather than analog/digital like I
> wanted, but I discovered that if I wanted Zulu time easily accessible

Jay,

Nice watch but the lack of analog feature is a deal-killer for me.
What am I going to do if ATC tell me "Traffic at 2 o'clock" ;-)

I had a Timex Epedition but it died within a year or two (the same
with my very expensive Titanium dive watch and few other fancy
watches) The $5 Walmart analog watch with big numbers and very
visible second hand has served me well for the last several years. I
have a timer for my approaches and hold pattern etc. but I much prefer
glancing at the analog watch while doing the hold.

Of course this cheap watch does not have Zulu time but I don't find
doing a simple addition while flying a big challenge yet. I may
change my mind in a few years ;-)

Hia Longworth

> >http://tinyurl.com/37qd8w

> Nice watch but the lack of analog feature is a deal-killer for me.
> What am I going to do if ATC tell me "Traffic at 2 o'clock" ;-)

I *do* miss the analog hands, but I'm getting used to just reading the
number again. It's funny -- having a digital watch has become retro!

> Of course this cheap watch does not have Zulu time but I don't find
> doing a simple addition while flying a big challenge yet. I may
> change my mind in a few years ;-)

Sadly, I find that I often have to check my watch just to know what
*day* it is nowadays.

;-)

Mary and I can never seem to remember whether Zulu is +5 or +6 hours,
cuz it changes with Daylight Savings Time. We also do a fair number of
x-country flights where we're not in our own time zone, so I really
like being able to push a button and see it.

Also, dual time is such a simple (for a digital watch) feature that it
seems silly *not* to have it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Nov 14, 11:51 pm, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/37qd8w
>
> For those who may be in the market for a decent pilot watch, this
> Timex Expedition is the best one I could find with all the features I
> wanted, for a reasonable ($54) price.
>
> It's got dual (actually triple) time with Zulu time accessible at the
> push of a button, countdown and -up timers, several reminder alarms, a
> built-in digital compass (that actually seems to work), and it's all
> easily readable with my old(er) eyes.
>
> The buttons are big, and the menu system is more intuitive than my
> previous watch, which was also a Timex Expedition (but a different
> model/version). It's pure digital, rather than analog/digital like I
> wanted, but I discovered that if I wanted Zulu time easily accessible
> without screwing up the date, pure digital was the only option.
>
> I looked at every pilot's watch out there, up to and including the
> Citizen, Torgoen, and all the other "hot shot pilot" watches, and IMHO
> they all suck. What blew me away was how you could easily spend as
> much as $5K on a watch that was absollutely not usable for telling
> time! To me, that's just an IQ test waiting to be failed...
>
> For $54, this relatively simple watch has every feature (well, except
> for an altimeter) that a pilot could want, a comfortable band, and it
> even looks decent. Best of all, I can buy roughly 100 of these watches
> for the cost of a single "real" pilot's watch!

I use a $35 Timex expedition indiglo analog watch with absolutely no
features except a second hand.

My GPS396, which I use in the cockpit, is programmed to show zulu time
in one of the data fields that is always displayed on the map page, so
that's where I get zulu time in the cockpit. When I do duats, etc
briefings I ask for and get local time. When I use the WSI weather
satellite in my flying club, it displays current zulu time at the
bottom of every window.

I went through the whole pilot watch thing a couple of years ago and
finally settled on a Torgoen zulu time watch, one of the low-end ones
that was basically just an analog watch with an extra hand for zulu
time, but it didn't even last a year -- soon the zulu hand was losing
about 1 hour a week, unacceptable. Also, while the design was elegant
in my view, it was harder than I liked to decipher zulu time in real
time. So now I just use my simple and cheap Timex analog watch and
when I need zulu time in the cockpit, I just look at my GPS.

Your watch is a a nice one, but I don't like button pushing on my
watch in the cockpit.

I agree that E6B and other featureitis watches are a joke. The only
pilots I know who wear them got them as gifts from non-pilot loved
ones.

In article >,
Jay Honeck > wrote:
>Mary and I can never seem to remember whether Zulu is +5 or +6 hours,
>cuz it changes with Daylight Savings Time. We also do a fair number of
>x-country flights where we're not in our own time zone, so I really
>like being able to push a button and see it.

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one that has this problem. :)
My solution has been to set the old wind-up clock in my Cherokee to always
read Zulu time. The watch on my wrist tells me local. Then I don't have to
think about it.

-- Dane

Kingfish wrote:
> On Nov 15, 2:37 pm, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
>
>> I'm with you Jay. I have a Brietling vintage pilot's chronograph sitting
>> upstairs unused now for over 40 years. It's heavy, I have to wind it,
>> and it's always a possible loss of thousands of dollars if misplaced or
>> stolen.
>> Pilots just don't need these anchors on their wrist any more; not with
>> modern time technology. I have a digital that keeps absolutely perfect
>> time. I think it cost me 20 bucks years ago.
>> DH
>>
>
> But Dudley, the fancy "pilot watch" is part of the uniform (costume?)
> You can't call yourself a real pilot if you don't have The Watch. You
> know, one of those expensive, multi-faced hunks of unobtanium with a
> built in ELT that makes women swoon and lesser pilots envious.

That's what the stuffed Teddy Bear I always carried with me was for.
:-))

--
Dudley Henriques

> My solution has been to set the old wind-up clock in my Cherokee to always
> read Zulu time. The watch on my wrist tells me local. Then I don't have to
> think about it.

We do the same thing, but I've found that this doesn't help me one
damned bit when I'm in the FBO checking weather...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck > wrote in news:cea46de1-bee9-4a68-92ab-
:

>
> Sadly, I find that I often have to check my watch just to know what
> *day* it is nowadays.

Maybe you should also get a tatto next to it to remind you of which planet
you're on.


Bertie

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Kingfish wrote:
>> On Nov 15, 2:37 pm, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
>>
>>> I'm with you Jay. I have a Brietling vintage pilot's chronograph
>>> sitting upstairs unused now for over 40 years. It's heavy, I have to
>>> wind it, and it's always a possible loss of thousands of dollars if
>>> misplaced or stolen.
>>> Pilots just don't need these anchors on their wrist any more; not
>>> with modern time technology. I have a digital that keeps absolutely
>>> perfect time. I think it cost me 20 bucks years ago.
>>> DH
>>>
>>
>> But Dudley, the fancy "pilot watch" is part of the uniform (costume?)
>> You can't call yourself a real pilot if you don't have The Watch. You
>> know, one of those expensive, multi-faced hunks of unobtanium with a
>> built in ELT that makes women swoon and lesser pilots envious.
>
> That's what the stuffed Teddy Bear I always carried with me was for.

Absolutely. Can't fly without one. Mine's missing both his ears and has
quite a bit of crud on him, but he's kept me alive to date!





Bertie

Jay Honeck > wrote in
:

>> My solution has been to set the old wind-up clock in my Cherokee to
>> always read Zulu time. The watch on my wrist tells me local. Then I
>> don't have to think about it.
>
> We do the same thing, but I've found that this doesn't help me one
> damned bit when I'm in the FBO checking weather...


Wow, you can't add or subtract a nmber greater than the finges on one hand.
Typical right winger.



Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Kingfish wrote:
>>> On Nov 15, 2:37 pm, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm with you Jay. I have a Brietling vintage pilot's chronograph
>>>> sitting upstairs unused now for over 40 years. It's heavy, I have to
>>>> wind it, and it's always a possible loss of thousands of dollars if
>>>> misplaced or stolen.
>>>> Pilots just don't need these anchors on their wrist any more; not
>>>> with modern time technology. I have a digital that keeps absolutely
>>>> perfect time. I think it cost me 20 bucks years ago.
>>>> DH
>>>>
>>> But Dudley, the fancy "pilot watch" is part of the uniform (costume?)
>>> You can't call yourself a real pilot if you don't have The Watch. You
>>> know, one of those expensive, multi-faced hunks of unobtanium with a
>>> built in ELT that makes women swoon and lesser pilots envious.
>> That's what the stuffed Teddy Bear I always carried with me was for.
>
> Absolutely. Can't fly without one. Mine's missing both his ears and has
> quite a bit of crud on him, but he's kept me alive to date!
>
>
>
>
>
> Bertie

Clay Lacy, movie photographer, and race pilot, used to carry a HUGE
Snoopy Dog with him stuffed in the back of his Omni Insurance
Co.sponsored Mustang. Girls loved that dog!! Got me a BEAR!!! Girls love
bears better than dogs!! :-))
D

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:


>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Clay Lacy, movie photographer, and race pilot, used to carry a HUGE
> Snoopy Dog with him stuffed in the back of his Omni Insurance
> Co.sponsored Mustang.


Yes, I remember that. Snoopy was "in" then, of course..


Girls loved that dog!! Got me a BEAR!!! Girls love
> bears better than dogs!!

Yep. Also it's a long standing tradition. A lot of pilots from WW1 had
teddy bears, and some even carried live animals with them (presumably to
keep them warm)


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>> Clay Lacy, movie photographer, and race pilot, used to carry a HUGE
>> Snoopy Dog with him stuffed in the back of his Omni Insurance
>> Co.sponsored Mustang.
>
>
> Yes, I remember that. Snoopy was "in" then, of course..
>
>
> Girls loved that dog!! Got me a BEAR!!! Girls love
>> bears better than dogs!!
>
> Yep. Also it's a long standing tradition. A lot of pilots from WW1 had
> teddy bears, and some even carried live animals with them (presumably to
> keep them warm)
>
>
> Bertie

Roscoe Turner even had a pet Lion. Some guys will do ANYTHING to attract
girls, but I have to admit.....that Bear created some GREAT times!!
:-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>> Clay Lacy, movie photographer, and race pilot, used to carry a HUGE
>>> Snoopy Dog with him stuffed in the back of his Omni Insurance
>>> Co.sponsored Mustang.
>>
>>
>> Yes, I remember that. Snoopy was "in" then, of course..
>>
>>
>> Girls loved that dog!! Got me a BEAR!!! Girls love
>>> bears better than dogs!!
>>
>> Yep. Also it's a long standing tradition. A lot of pilots from WW1
>> had teddy bears, and some even carried live animals with them
>> (presumably to keep them warm)
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Roscoe Turner even had a pet Lion. Some guys will do ANYTHING to
> attract girls, but I have to admit.....that Bear created some GREAT
> times!!
>:-))
>

Hmm, neverr really got any action out of my bear!
Roscoe must have with that lion, though. Gilmore,after his sponsers, of
course.

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bertie
>>>> Clay Lacy, movie photographer, and race pilot, used to carry a HUGE
>>>> Snoopy Dog with him stuffed in the back of his Omni Insurance
>>>> Co.sponsored Mustang.
>>>
>>> Yes, I remember that. Snoopy was "in" then, of course..
>>>
>>>
>>> Girls loved that dog!! Got me a BEAR!!! Girls love
>>>> bears better than dogs!!
>>> Yep. Also it's a long standing tradition. A lot of pilots from WW1
>>> had teddy bears, and some even carried live animals with them
>>> (presumably to keep them warm)
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>> Roscoe Turner even had a pet Lion. Some guys will do ANYTHING to
>> attract girls, but I have to admit.....that Bear created some GREAT
>> times!!
>> :-))
>>
>
> Hmm, neverr really got any action out of my bear!
> Roscoe must have with that lion, though. Gilmore,after his sponsers, of
> course.
>
> Bertie
>
Come to think of it, almost every picture I ever saw of Turner with
Gilmore, he was smiling :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

>
>>>
>>
>> Hmm, neverr really got any action out of my bear!
>> Roscoe must have with that lion, though. Gilmore,after his sponsers, of
>> course.
>>
>> Bertie
>>
> Come to think of it, almost every picture I ever saw of Turner with
> Gilmore, he was smiling :-))
>

Those guys were like rock stars back then.
I think he had to give Gilmore to a zoo when he got to be to big to manage.


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>>> Hmm, neverr really got any action out of my bear!
>>> Roscoe must have with that lion, though. Gilmore,after his sponsers, of
>>> course.
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>>
>> Come to think of it, almost every picture I ever saw of Turner with
>> Gilmore, he was smiling :-))
>>
>
> Those guys were like rock stars back then.
> I think he had to give Gilmore to a zoo when he got to be to big to manage.
>
>
> Bertie
>
I remember reading something to that effect I think, way back in the
stone age someplace. Ole' Roscoe must have been quite a fellow.
Those early pilots really had what it took. Flying some of those old
crates was taking your life in you hands even before you made it to
pattern altitude.
I think it was Andy Sephton, check pilot for the Shuttleworth collection
who said he considers the Bleriot monoplane one of the trickist
airplanes he has ever flown.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>> Hmm, neverr really got any action out of my bear!
>>>> Roscoe must have with that lion, though. Gilmore,after his
>>>> sponsers, of course.
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>>
>>> Come to think of it, almost every picture I ever saw of Turner with
>>> Gilmore, he was smiling :-))
>>>
>>
>> Those guys were like rock stars back then.
>> I think he had to give Gilmore to a zoo when he got to be to big to
>> manage.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>>
> I remember reading something to that effect I think, way back in the
> stone age someplace. Ole' Roscoe must have been quite a fellow.
> Those early pilots really had what it took. Flying some of those old
> crates was taking your life in you hands even before you made it to
> pattern altitude.
> I think it was Andy Sephton, check pilot for the Shuttleworth
> collection
> who said he considers the Bleriot monoplane one of the trickist
> airplanes he has ever flown.
>

I've flown a model of one and it was a handful. Minimal power and
massive drag and the wing warping made life very interesting as well. On
top of that, the engine overheated and died after about ten minutes of
flight!
But the contraptions that Roscoe was flying were truly scary on a whole
'nuther level. That Wedell Williams with the Hornet must have been
positively evil to fly. And of course he crashed that airplane earlier
due to carb ice.


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>>> Hmm, neverr really got any action out of my bear!
>>>>> Roscoe must have with that lion, though. Gilmore,after his
>>>>> sponsers, of course.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>
>>>> Come to think of it, almost every picture I ever saw of Turner with
>>>> Gilmore, he was smiling :-))
>>>>
>>> Those guys were like rock stars back then.
>>> I think he had to give Gilmore to a zoo when he got to be to big to
>>> manage.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>>
>> I remember reading something to that effect I think, way back in the
>> stone age someplace. Ole' Roscoe must have been quite a fellow.
>> Those early pilots really had what it took. Flying some of those old
>> crates was taking your life in you hands even before you made it to
>> pattern altitude.
>> I think it was Andy Sephton, check pilot for the Shuttleworth
>> collection
>> who said he considers the Bleriot monoplane one of the trickist
>> airplanes he has ever flown.
>>
>
> I've flown a model of one and it was a handful. Minimal power and
> massive drag and the wing warping made life very interesting as well. On
> top of that, the engine overheated and died after about ten minutes of
> flight!
> But the contraptions that Roscoe was flying were truly scary on a whole
> 'nuther level. That Wedell Williams with the Hornet must have been
> positively evil to fly. And of course he crashed that airplane earlier
> due to carb ice.
>
>
> Bertie
>
Every now and then at some of our shows I'd get a chance to sit down and
jaw awhile with the Formula 1 race pilots. Steve Whittman was at a few
of these ("war stories" gab sessions) Steve had some amazing stuff from
the "old days", and would have us all laughing like idiots telling us
about flying some of the old planes.
I actually got a taste of what he was talking about when I flew a
Cassutt race plane one afternoon. Actually, you don't really FLY a
Cassutt, you WEAR a Cassutt :-) Even the Pitts wasn't as sensitive on
the controls as that beast. But it was great fun and I caught on quickly
after it scared the s**t out of me on take off. I rotated and went to
100 feet before I could ease off the tiny bit of back pressure I had
used to do that :-))
In my opinion, the guys who flew those early planes were REAL pilots!!
:-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:


>>
> Every now and then at some of our shows I'd get a chance to sit down
> and jaw awhile with the Formula 1 race pilots. Steve Whittman was at a
> few of these ("war stories" gab sessions) Steve had some amazing stuff
> from the "old days", and would have us all laughing like idiots
> telling us about flying some of the old planes.
> I actually got a taste of what he was talking about when I flew a
> Cassutt race plane one afternoon. Actually, you don't really FLY a
> Cassutt, you WEAR a Cassutt :-) Even the Pitts wasn't as sensitive on
> the controls as that beast. But it was great fun and I caught on
> quickly after it scared the s**t out of me on take off. I rotated and
> went to 100 feet before I could ease off the tiny bit of back pressure
> I had used to do that :-))
> In my opinion, the guys who flew those early planes were REAL pilots!!
>:-))

You were lucky to have met him. I'd seen him at Oshkosh and sun n fun a few
times, but wasn't part ofthe elite that got to meet him.
Any of those things had to be a handful. the fuselage area, even on the
inline engined ones, was vast ahead of the CG and the tail surfaces tiny.
Add that to some fairly sensitive wings and pilots with fairly limited
experience in low performance airplanes and it's a wonder that any of them
survived! Lots didn't, of course.


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>
>> Every now and then at some of our shows I'd get a chance to sit down
>> and jaw awhile with the Formula 1 race pilots. Steve Whittman was at a
>> few of these ("war stories" gab sessions) Steve had some amazing stuff
>> from the "old days", and would have us all laughing like idiots
>> telling us about flying some of the old planes.
>> I actually got a taste of what he was talking about when I flew a
>> Cassutt race plane one afternoon. Actually, you don't really FLY a
>> Cassutt, you WEAR a Cassutt :-) Even the Pitts wasn't as sensitive on
>> the controls as that beast. But it was great fun and I caught on
>> quickly after it scared the s**t out of me on take off. I rotated and
>> went to 100 feet before I could ease off the tiny bit of back pressure
>> I had used to do that :-))
>> In my opinion, the guys who flew those early planes were REAL pilots!!
>> :-))
>
> You were lucky to have met him. I'd seen him at Oshkosh and sun n fun a few
> times, but wasn't part ofthe elite that got to meet him.

Elite? Not THIS bunch!! More like us being us covered from head to foot
with engine oil and hydraulic fluid and all of dying for a cold coke
with Whittman the only guy there with enough loose change for the
battered old coke machine in the back of the hangar:-))

> Any of those things had to be a handful. the fuselage area, even on the
> inline engined ones, was vast ahead of the CG and the tail surfaces tiny.
> Add that to some fairly sensitive wings and pilots with fairly limited
> experience in low performance airplanes and it's a wonder that any of them
> survived! Lots didn't, of course.
>
>
> Bertie

Yeah, true enough. Even Whittman came to a tragic end after all he had
accomplished and done. I seem to recall hearing both he and his wife
died when the fabric failed on their Tailwind some years back.


--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>
>>> Every now and then at some of our shows I'd get a chance to sit down
>>> and jaw awhile with the Formula 1 race pilots. Steve Whittman was at
>>> a few of these ("war stories" gab sessions) Steve had some amazing
>>> stuff from the "old days", and would have us all laughing like
>>> idiots telling us about flying some of the old planes.
>>> I actually got a taste of what he was talking about when I flew a
>>> Cassutt race plane one afternoon. Actually, you don't really FLY a
>>> Cassutt, you WEAR a Cassutt :-) Even the Pitts wasn't as sensitive
>>> on the controls as that beast. But it was great fun and I caught on
>>> quickly after it scared the s**t out of me on take off. I rotated
>>> and went to 100 feet before I could ease off the tiny bit of back
>>> pressure I had used to do that :-))
>>> In my opinion, the guys who flew those early planes were REAL
>>> pilots!!
>>> :-))
>>
>> You were lucky to have met him. I'd seen him at Oshkosh and sun n fun
>> a few times, but wasn't part ofthe elite that got to meet him.
>
> Elite? Not THIS bunch!! More like us being us covered from head to
> foot with engine oil and hydraulic fluid and all of dying for a cold
> coke with Whittman the only guy there with enough loose change for the
> battered old coke machine in the back of the hangar:-))
>

You know what i mean...


>> Any of those things had to be a handful. the fuselage area, even on
>> the inline engined ones, was vast ahead of the CG and the tail
>> surfaces tiny. Add that to some fairly sensitive wings and pilots
>> with fairly limited experience in low performance airplanes and it's
>> a wonder that any of them survived! Lots didn't, of course.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Yeah, true enough. Even Whittman came to a tragic end after all he had
> accomplished and done. I seem to recall hearing both he and his wife
> died when the fabric failed on their Tailwind some years back.
>
>

Yes, hard to believe that such an experienced builder could make such an
elementery mistake. He was using some sort of tight weave nylon
covering, and , as you did with cotton in the past, just doped it onto
the wood sheeted wing of his tailwind. It bubbled up in flight, not
having properly adhered to the surface.
this happened to a friend of my father's in a Cessna Bobcat many years
ago. His son and he made a repair and then went flying as soon as the
dope dried. They were alarmed to see a large bubble forming in the upper
surface of the wing as they motored along.
They got away with it though..


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>
>>>> Every now and then at some of our shows I'd get a chance to sit down
>>>> and jaw awhile with the Formula 1 race pilots. Steve Whittman was at
>>>> a few of these ("war stories" gab sessions) Steve had some amazing
>>>> stuff from the "old days", and would have us all laughing like
>>>> idiots telling us about flying some of the old planes.
>>>> I actually got a taste of what he was talking about when I flew a
>>>> Cassutt race plane one afternoon. Actually, you don't really FLY a
>>>> Cassutt, you WEAR a Cassutt :-) Even the Pitts wasn't as sensitive
>>>> on the controls as that beast. But it was great fun and I caught on
>>>> quickly after it scared the s**t out of me on take off. I rotated
>>>> and went to 100 feet before I could ease off the tiny bit of back
>>>> pressure I had used to do that :-))
>>>> In my opinion, the guys who flew those early planes were REAL
>>>> pilots!!
>>>> :-))
>>> You were lucky to have met him. I'd seen him at Oshkosh and sun n fun
>>> a few times, but wasn't part ofthe elite that got to meet him.
>> Elite? Not THIS bunch!! More like us being us covered from head to
>> foot with engine oil and hydraulic fluid and all of dying for a cold
>> coke with Whittman the only guy there with enough loose change for the
>> battered old coke machine in the back of the hangar:-))
>>
>
> You know what i mean...
>
>
>>> Any of those things had to be a handful. the fuselage area, even on
>>> the inline engined ones, was vast ahead of the CG and the tail
>>> surfaces tiny. Add that to some fairly sensitive wings and pilots
>>> with fairly limited experience in low performance airplanes and it's
>>> a wonder that any of them survived! Lots didn't, of course.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>> Yeah, true enough. Even Whittman came to a tragic end after all he had
>> accomplished and done. I seem to recall hearing both he and his wife
>> died when the fabric failed on their Tailwind some years back.


>>
>>
>
> Yes, hard to believe that such an experienced builder could make such an
> elementery mistake. He was using some sort of tight weave nylon
> covering, and , as you did with cotton in the past, just doped it onto
> the wood sheeted wing of his tailwind. It bubbled up in flight, not
> having properly adhered to the surface.

A real shame. Such a sad end for such a talented guy. If anything, what
happened should serve as a constant reminder of the inherent dangers
involved in aviation and that no matter how long we've been in it, and
no matter how much we know and have experienced, it can rise up and bite
us in the ass at the exact instant we let our duard down and become
complacent.
I know it was that way for me anyway. I never once lost that slight
"edge" of awareness that danger was there with me wherever I went.
This "feeling" actually got stronger as the years went by.
I've always felt that this single thing is what managed to get me here,
sitting in the den retired with it all behind me, but SAFELY behind me
:-))
> this happened to a friend of my father's in a Cessna Bobcat many years
> ago. His son and he made a repair and then went flying as soon as the
> dope dried. They were alarmed to see a large bubble forming in the upper
> surface of the wing as they motored along.
> They got away with it though..
>
>
> Bertie

Ah yes, the old UC78 Bamboo Bomber??? I still remember Sky King from
when I was a bit "younger". Never got to fly one, but heard it was a
fine old airplane indeed.


--
Dudley Henriques

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
...
> Kingfish wrote:
>> On Nov 15, 2:37 pm, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
>>
>>> I'm with you Jay. I have a Brietling vintage pilot's chronograph sitting
>>> upstairs unused now for over 40 years. It's heavy, I have to wind it,
>>> and it's always a possible loss of thousands of dollars if misplaced or
>>> stolen.
>>> Pilots just don't need these anchors on their wrist any more; not with
>>> modern time technology. I have a digital that keeps absolutely perfect
>>> time. I think it cost me 20 bucks years ago.
>>> DH
>>>
>>
>> But Dudley, the fancy "pilot watch" is part of the uniform (costume?)
>> You can't call yourself a real pilot if you don't have The Watch. You
>> know, one of those expensive, multi-faced hunks of unobtanium with a
>> built in ELT that makes women swoon and lesser pilots envious.
>
> That's what the stuffed Teddy Bear I always carried with me was for.
> :-))

Teddy Bears!!?? We don't need no stinkin' teddy bears!!

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
...
> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>
> Clay Lacy, movie photographer, and race pilot, used to carry a HUGE Snoopy
> Dog with him stuffed in the back of his Omni Insurance Co.sponsored
> Mustang. Girls loved that dog!! Got me a BEAR!!! Girls love bears better
> than dogs!! :-))

I was going to carry a gigantic beaver, but my wife threatened me bodily...

Matt W. Barrow wrote:
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Kingfish wrote:
>>> On Nov 15, 2:37 pm, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm with you Jay. I have a Brietling vintage pilot's chronograph sitting
>>>> upstairs unused now for over 40 years. It's heavy, I have to wind it,
>>>> and it's always a possible loss of thousands of dollars if misplaced or
>>>> stolen.
>>>> Pilots just don't need these anchors on their wrist any more; not with
>>>> modern time technology. I have a digital that keeps absolutely perfect
>>>> time. I think it cost me 20 bucks years ago.
>>>> DH
>>>>
>>> But Dudley, the fancy "pilot watch" is part of the uniform (costume?)
>>> You can't call yourself a real pilot if you don't have The Watch. You
>>> know, one of those expensive, multi-faced hunks of unobtanium with a
>>> built in ELT that makes women swoon and lesser pilots envious.
>> That's what the stuffed Teddy Bear I always carried with me was for.
>> :-))
>
> Teddy Bears!!?? We don't need no stinkin' teddy bears!!
>
>
Speak for yourself!! That darn bear attracted more gorgeous women than I
could shake a stick at. I mean it was absolutely"cruel" how helpless and
totally in my power and under my manly spell these beauties became when
they saw the bear. YES SIR!!!....he was all powerfull....all
potent......and girls swooned at the very sight of him. Mothers would
raise their hands and cover the eyes of their beauty queen daughters
lest they cast a chance glance upon his furry face.
He was everywhere.....a furry legend in his own time.
So powerful was his magic spell, that throughout the air show and flight
test kingdom, he was simply known and referred to reverently as,
"The Bear"!!!!

Nuff said. My wife has forbidded me to discuss the bear with you any
further lest you become enchanted and have to go out tonight looking for
your own Bear!!!!!



--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Every now and then at some of our shows I'd get a chance to sit
>>>>> down and jaw awhile with the Formula 1 race pilots. Steve Whittman
>>>>> was at a few of these ("war stories" gab sessions) Steve had some
>>>>> amazing stuff from the "old days", and would have us all laughing
>>>>> like idiots telling us about flying some of the old planes.
>>>>> I actually got a taste of what he was talking about when I flew a
>>>>> Cassutt race plane one afternoon. Actually, you don't really FLY a
>>>>> Cassutt, you WEAR a Cassutt :-) Even the Pitts wasn't as sensitive
>>>>> on the controls as that beast. But it was great fun and I caught
>>>>> on quickly after it scared the s**t out of me on take off. I
>>>>> rotated and went to 100 feet before I could ease off the tiny bit
>>>>> of back pressure I had used to do that :-))
>>>>> In my opinion, the guys who flew those early planes were REAL
>>>>> pilots!!
>>>>> :-))
>>>> You were lucky to have met him. I'd seen him at Oshkosh and sun n
>>>> fun a few times, but wasn't part ofthe elite that got to meet him.
>>> Elite? Not THIS bunch!! More like us being us covered from head to
>>> foot with engine oil and hydraulic fluid and all of dying for a cold
>>> coke with Whittman the only guy there with enough loose change for
>>> the battered old coke machine in the back of the hangar:-))
>>>
>>
>> You know what i mean...
>>
>>
>>>> Any of those things had to be a handful. the fuselage area, even on
>>>> the inline engined ones, was vast ahead of the CG and the tail
>>>> surfaces tiny. Add that to some fairly sensitive wings and pilots
>>>> with fairly limited experience in low performance airplanes and
>>>> it's a wonder that any of them survived! Lots didn't, of course.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>> Yeah, true enough. Even Whittman came to a tragic end after all he
>>> had accomplished and done. I seem to recall hearing both he and his
>>> wife died when the fabric failed on their Tailwind some years back.
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yes, hard to believe that such an experienced builder could make such
>> an elementery mistake. He was using some sort of tight weave nylon
>> covering, and , as you did with cotton in the past, just doped it
>> onto the wood sheeted wing of his tailwind. It bubbled up in flight,
>> not having properly adhered to the surface.
>
> A real shame. Such a sad end for such a talented guy. If anything,
> what happened should serve as a constant reminder of the inherent
> dangers involved in aviation and that no matter how long we've been in
> it, and no matter how much we know and have experienced, it can rise
> up and bite us in the ass at the exact instant we let our duard down
> and become complacent.
> I know it was that way for me anyway. I never once lost that slight
> "edge" of awareness that danger was there with me wherever I went.
> This "feeling" actually got stronger as the years went by.
> I've always felt that this single thing is what managed to get me
> here, sitting in the den retired with it all behind me, but SAFELY
> behind me
>:-))

Yeah,every once in a while I learn something that is so big and so
fundamental that it frightens me that I'd been flying around in
ignorance of it for so long and worse, makes me wonder what else I might
be flying around not knowing..

>> this happened to a friend of my father's in a Cessna Bobcat many
>> years ago. His son and he made a repair and then went flying as soon
>> as the dope dried. They were alarmed to see a large bubble forming in
>> the upper surface of the wing as they motored along.
>> They got away with it though..
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Ah yes, the old UC78 Bamboo Bomber??? I still remember Sky King from
> when I was a bit "younger". Never got to fly one, but heard it was a
> fine old airplane indeed.
>

Yeah, not many left now. A buddy of mine nearly bought one with his
brother when they were both fairly young, but they walked away from it
because of the daunting task of rebuidling the wing. The friend of my
dad's from the story had sold his by the time I'd gotten into his
neighbothood, but I did get a ride in his Apache. My first in a light
twin.

Bertie
>

"Matt W. Barrow" > wrote in
:

>
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>
>> Clay Lacy, movie photographer, and race pilot, used to carry a HUGE
>> Snoopy Dog with him stuffed in the back of his Omni Insurance
>> Co.sponsored Mustang. Girls loved that dog!! Got me a BEAR!!! Girls
>> love bears better than dogs!! :-))
>
> I was going to carry a gigantic beaver, but my wife threatened me
> bodily...
>


I doubt you could fit Jay into your flight case.. (think about it)

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

> Yeah,every once in a while I learn something that is so big and so
> fundamental that it frightens me that I'd been flying around in
> ignorance of it for so long and worse, makes me wonder what else I might
> be flying around not knowing..

It's amazing the crap we all pull off while flying without killing
ourselves. I should have been dead years ago with some of the boners
I've pulled off in my life :-))



> Yeah, not many left now. A buddy of mine nearly bought one with his
> brother when they were both fairly young, but they walked away from it
> because of the daunting task of rebuidling the wing. The friend of my
> dad's from the story had sold his by the time I'd gotten into his
> neighbothood, but I did get a ride in his Apache. My first in a light
> twin.
>
> Bertie

Had a buddy once who bought a 150 Apache. He had trouble fining an FAA
type to go flying with him. They liked it with both fans running, but
giving a flight test in it was another matter :-))


--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>
>> Yeah,every once in a while I learn something that is so big and so
>> fundamental that it frightens me that I'd been flying around in
>> ignorance of it for so long and worse, makes me wonder what else I
>> might be flying around not knowing..
>
> It's amazing the crap we all pull off while flying without killing
> ourselves. I should have been dead years ago with some of the boners
> I've pulled off in my life :-))
>
>
>
>> Yeah, not many left now. A buddy of mine nearly bought one with his
>> brother when they were both fairly young, but they walked away from
>> it because of the daunting task of rebuidling the wing. The friend of
>> my dad's from the story had sold his by the time I'd gotten into his
>> neighbothood, but I did get a ride in his Apache. My first in a light
>> twin.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Had a buddy once who bought a 150 Apache. He had trouble fining an FAA
> type to go flying with him. They liked it with both fans running, but
> giving a flight test in it was another matter :-))
>
>


What? You're kidding? They were the perfect trainer and probably the
safest thing to do flight tests in. It was the only light twin ever
certified for spins (later revoked). The thing about them was that you
had to do everything right or they wouldn't go up, even light, but more
importantly, as a trainerm they were less likely to kill you than any
other light twin if the student got it horribly wrong.
For instance, if you got a failure on the left,( I think, it;s been a
while) during takeoff and you had to go, you had to pump the gear up
manually. If you lost the left whilst going around, you also had to get
the flaps up using the same hand pump. So, the pocedure was to quickly
select the flaps first so they would blow up due to aerodynamic load and
save you the trouble, then start pumping like hell to get the gear up.
You had already caged the engine, of course.
A VMC roll was very progressive, and if you were doing those at altitude
you could let them develop well past the point you could with any other
light twin I know of and even if it rolled over on you it was entirely
recoverable.
During my own MEI checkride the FAA inspector wasn't happy with my VMC
demos. They weren't agressive enough to suit him. We were doing these
relatively low, BTW, due to overcast. He took it form me and suggested
that I had to really show the student what a divergence was all about.
Long story short he got it wrong and we did about 3/4 turn before we
recovered. That wouldn't have been a happy ending in a Twin Commanche.

I remember reading that Cessna's chief test pilot was demonstrating the
T-50 Bobcat to the FAA for certification. He went through all the
manuevers required for the inspector and after the tests were all done,
casually mentioned that he didn't have a multi-engine rating and could
the inspector sign him off fo one. The inspector went nuts, but
eventually decided that the guy hadn't actually violated any rules
technically, and that the three days of flight testing had actually been
a pretty good flight test, so he obliged...

Oh, and Larry, before you start looking to get the guys prosecuted, this
would have been in 1940 or so when the rules were different and they're
both prolly dead anyway..
..



Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

>>> Bertie
>> Had a buddy once who bought a 150 Apache. He had trouble fining an FAA
>> type to go flying with him. They liked it with both fans running, but
>> giving a flight test in it was another matter :-))
>>
>>
>
>
> What? You're kidding? They were the perfect trainer and probably the
> safest thing to do flight tests in. It was the only light twin ever
> certified for spins (later revoked). The thing about them was that you
> had to do everything right or they wouldn't go up, even light, but more
> importantly, as a trainerm they were less likely to kill you than any
> other light twin if the student got it horribly wrong.

I've not time in the 150 myself. It's a fact that the FAA wasn't all
that happy about flying with him in it; a lot of fuss about issues below
VMC un certain conditions. Apparently a couple of the fuzz folks had
problems giving flight tests in it...but you know the FAA :-))


--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>
>>>> Bertie
>>> Had a buddy once who bought a 150 Apache. He had trouble fining an
FAA
>>> type to go flying with him. They liked it with both fans running,
but
>>> giving a flight test in it was another matter :-))
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> What? You're kidding? They were the perfect trainer and probably the
>> safest thing to do flight tests in. It was the only light twin ever
>> certified for spins (later revoked). The thing about them was that
you
>> had to do everything right or they wouldn't go up, even light, but
more
>> importantly, as a trainerm they were less likely to kill you than any
>> other light twin if the student got it horribly wrong.
>
> I've not time in the 150 myself. It's a fact that the FAA wasn't all
> that happy about flying with him in it; a lot of fuss about issues
below
> VMC un certain conditions. Apparently a couple of the fuzz folks had
> problems giving flight tests in it...but you know the FAA :-))


Well, the guy I was with seemed to prefer it, but that was a while back,
of course. I don't see the current crop being all that much better,
really, and the apache was so docile.....
Never flew a 235 but that should have been streets better. Flew an Aztec
a few tims, but not enought to get a handle on it. The 310 would have
ahd a much narrower comfort envelope than the apache, for instance, even
though it went up better on one at training weights. Likewise the Baron
and just about anything else I can think of.
I was an observer on a DC-3 training flight where it departed during a
VMC demo. I was standing in between them and hungover as bedamned. Ugh,
getting nauseous just thinking about it.


#Bertie
>
>

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>
>>>>> Bertie
>>>> Had a buddy once who bought a 150 Apache. He had trouble fining an
> FAA
>>>> type to go flying with him. They liked it with both fans running,
> but
>>>> giving a flight test in it was another matter :-))
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> What? You're kidding? They were the perfect trainer and probably the
>>> safest thing to do flight tests in. It was the only light twin ever
>>> certified for spins (later revoked). The thing about them was that
> you
>>> had to do everything right or they wouldn't go up, even light, but
> more
>>> importantly, as a trainerm they were less likely to kill you than any
>>> other light twin if the student got it horribly wrong.
>> I've not time in the 150 myself. It's a fact that the FAA wasn't all
>> that happy about flying with him in it; a lot of fuss about issues
> below
>> VMC un certain conditions. Apparently a couple of the fuzz folks had
>> problems giving flight tests in it...but you know the FAA :-))
>
>
> Well, the guy I was with seemed to prefer it, but that was a while back,
> of course. I don't see the current crop being all that much better,
> really, and the apache was so docile.....
> Never flew a 235 but that should have been streets better. Flew an Aztec
> a few tims, but not enought to get a handle on it. The 310 would have
> ahd a much narrower comfort envelope than the apache, for instance, even
> though it went up better on one at training weights. Likewise the Baron
> and just about anything else I can think of.
> I was an observer on a DC-3 training flight where it departed during a
> VMC demo. I was standing in between them and hungover as bedamned. Ugh,
> getting nauseous just thinking about it.
>
>
> #Bertie
>>
>

Most all of my professional flying was done in singles. Believe it or
not, I think I might be the only idiot lest alive who tested in a 337
and got one of those stupid centerline thrust ratings :-)) We had one
for charter and I had to get rated in it to use it. I have a lot of time
flying multi-engine airplanes but never was rated for them; just way too
much involved in instructing in high performance singles I guess.


--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>> Had a buddy once who bought a 150 Apache. He had trouble fining an
>> FAA
>>>>> type to go flying with him. They liked it with both fans running,
>> but
>>>>> giving a flight test in it was another matter :-))
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What? You're kidding? They were the perfect trainer and probably
>>>> the safest thing to do flight tests in. It was the only light twin
>>>> ever certified for spins (later revoked). The thing about them was
>>>> that
>> you
>>>> had to do everything right or they wouldn't go up, even light, but
>> more
>>>> importantly, as a trainerm they were less likely to kill you than
>>>> any other light twin if the student got it horribly wrong.
>>> I've not time in the 150 myself. It's a fact that the FAA wasn't all
>>> that happy about flying with him in it; a lot of fuss about issues
>> below
>>> VMC un certain conditions. Apparently a couple of the fuzz folks had
>>> problems giving flight tests in it...but you know the FAA :-))
>>
>>
>> Well, the guy I was with seemed to prefer it, but that was a while
>> back, of course. I don't see the current crop being all that much
>> better, really, and the apache was so docile.....
>> Never flew a 235 but that should have been streets better. Flew an
>> Aztec a few tims, but not enought to get a handle on it. The 310
>> would have ahd a much narrower comfort envelope than the apache, for
>> instance, even though it went up better on one at training weights.
>> Likewise the Baron and just about anything else I can think of.
>> I was an observer on a DC-3 training flight where it departed during
>> a VMC demo. I was standing in between them and hungover as bedamned.
>> Ugh, getting nauseous just thinking about it.
>>
>>
>> #Bertie
>>>
>>
>
> Most all of my professional flying was done in singles. Believe it or
> not, I think I might be the only idiot lest alive who tested in a 337
> and got one of those stupid centerline thrust ratings :-)) We had one
> for charter and I had to get rated in it to use it. I have a lot of
> time flying multi-engine airplanes but never was rated for them; just
> way too much involved in instructing in high performance singles I
> guess.


Now that's an odd logbook allright!


Bertie
>

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>> Had a buddy once who bought a 150 Apache. He had trouble fining an
>>> FAA
>>>>>> type to go flying with him. They liked it with both fans running,
>>> but
>>>>>> giving a flight test in it was another matter :-))
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> What? You're kidding? They were the perfect trainer and probably
>>>>> the safest thing to do flight tests in. It was the only light twin
>>>>> ever certified for spins (later revoked). The thing about them was
>>>>> that
>>> you
>>>>> had to do everything right or they wouldn't go up, even light, but
>>> more
>>>>> importantly, as a trainerm they were less likely to kill you than
>>>>> any other light twin if the student got it horribly wrong.
>>>> I've not time in the 150 myself. It's a fact that the FAA wasn't all
>>>> that happy about flying with him in it; a lot of fuss about issues
>>> below
>>>> VMC un certain conditions. Apparently a couple of the fuzz folks had
>>>> problems giving flight tests in it...but you know the FAA :-))
>>>
>>> Well, the guy I was with seemed to prefer it, but that was a while
>>> back, of course. I don't see the current crop being all that much
>>> better, really, and the apache was so docile.....
>>> Never flew a 235 but that should have been streets better. Flew an
>>> Aztec a few tims, but not enought to get a handle on it. The 310
>>> would have ahd a much narrower comfort envelope than the apache, for
>>> instance, even though it went up better on one at training weights.
>>> Likewise the Baron and just about anything else I can think of.
>>> I was an observer on a DC-3 training flight where it departed during
>>> a VMC demo. I was standing in between them and hungover as bedamned.
>>> Ugh, getting nauseous just thinking about it.
>>>
>>>
>>> #Bertie
>> Most all of my professional flying was done in singles. Believe it or
>> not, I think I might be the only idiot lest alive who tested in a 337
>> and got one of those stupid centerline thrust ratings :-)) We had one
>> for charter and I had to get rated in it to use it. I have a lot of
>> time flying multi-engine airplanes but never was rated for them; just
>> way too much involved in instructing in high performance singles I
>> guess.
>
>
> Now that's an odd logbook allright!
>
>
> Bertie
>
Never really had the desire to go into the majors or into heavy charter.
I loved primary instruction and later on into War Birds, acro, and acro
instruction; a lot of private tutoring to (rich :-) individuals with
their own airplanes.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:



>>
> Never really had the desire to go into the majors or into heavy charter.
> I loved primary instruction and later on into War Birds, acro, and acro
> instruction; a lot of private tutoring to (rich :-) individuals with
> their own airplanes.


I didn't either, but I was starving to death! The big ones are fun in their
own way. Not so much anymore though. Even in the sim, the autopilot is on
most of the time.



Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>
>
>> Never really had the desire to go into the majors or into heavy charter.
>> I loved primary instruction and later on into War Birds, acro, and acro
>> instruction; a lot of private tutoring to (rich :-) individuals with
>> their own airplanes.
>
>
> I didn't either, but I was starving to death! The big ones are fun in their
> own way. Not so much anymore though. Even in the sim, the autopilot is on
> most of the time.
>
>
>
> Bertie

I was lucky I guess. Got hooked up somehow with the "rich set" and
developed a VERY substantial private instruction business. Got to fly
more high powered "toys" than I could ever have afforded to fly myself.


--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>
>>
>>> Never really had the desire to go into the majors or into heavy
>>> charter. I loved primary instruction and later on into War Birds,
>>> acro, and acro instruction; a lot of private tutoring to (rich :-)
>>> individuals with their own airplanes.
>>
>>
>> I didn't either, but I was starving to death! The big ones are fun in
>> their own way. Not so much anymore though. Even in the sim, the
>> autopilot is on most of the time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> I was lucky I guess. Got hooked up somehow with the "rich set" and
> developed a VERY substantial private instruction business. Got to fly
> more high powered "toys" than I could ever have afforded to fly
> myself.
>
>

You were!

Of course, you'd flown them before courtesy of uncle sam..

Did you know Gordon Van Kowneberg, BTW?

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Never really had the desire to go into the majors or into heavy
>>>> charter. I loved primary instruction and later on into War Birds,
>>>> acro, and acro instruction; a lot of private tutoring to (rich :-)
>>>> individuals with their own airplanes.
>>>
>>> I didn't either, but I was starving to death! The big ones are fun in
>>> their own way. Not so much anymore though. Even in the sim, the
>>> autopilot is on most of the time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>> I was lucky I guess. Got hooked up somehow with the "rich set" and
>> developed a VERY substantial private instruction business. Got to fly
>> more high powered "toys" than I could ever have afforded to fly
>> myself.
>>
>>
>
> You were!
>
> Of course, you'd flown them before courtesy of uncle sam..
>
> Did you know Gordon Van Kowneberg, BTW?
>
> Bertie
>
No, but with a tag like that,he HAD to have money :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Never really had the desire to go into the majors or into heavy
>>>>> charter. I loved primary instruction and later on into War Birds,
>>>>> acro, and acro instruction; a lot of private tutoring to (rich :-)
>>>>> individuals with their own airplanes.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't either, but I was starving to death! The big ones are fun
in
>>>> their own way. Not so much anymore though. Even in the sim, the
>>>> autopilot is on most of the time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>> I was lucky I guess. Got hooked up somehow with the "rich set" and
>>> developed a VERY substantial private instruction business. Got to
fly
>>> more high powered "toys" than I could ever have afforded to fly
>>> myself.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You were!
>>
>> Of course, you'd flown them before courtesy of uncle sam..
>>
>> Did you know Gordon Van Kowneberg, BTW?
>>
>> Bertie
>>
> No, but with a tag like that,he HAD to have money :-))
>

Nah, he had a Twin Beech operation in Wilmington. He was just in your
neck of the woods is all. How about Chuck Weldon?


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Never really had the desire to go into the majors or into heavy
>>>>>> charter. I loved primary instruction and later on into War Birds,
>>>>>> acro, and acro instruction; a lot of private tutoring to (rich :-)
>>>>>> individuals with their own airplanes.
>>>>> I didn't either, but I was starving to death! The big ones are fun
> in
>>>>> their own way. Not so much anymore though. Even in the sim, the
>>>>> autopilot is on most of the time.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bertie
>>>> I was lucky I guess. Got hooked up somehow with the "rich set" and
>>>> developed a VERY substantial private instruction business. Got to
> fly
>>>> more high powered "toys" than I could ever have afforded to fly
>>>> myself.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> You were!
>>>
>>> Of course, you'd flown them before courtesy of uncle sam..
>>>
>>> Did you know Gordon Van Kowneberg, BTW?
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>>
>> No, but with a tag like that,he HAD to have money :-))
>>
>
> Nah, he had a Twin Beech operation in Wilmington. He was just in your
> neck of the woods is all. How about Chuck Weldon?
>
>
> Bertie
>
The only guy I recall who had a Beech 18 operation out of Wilmington was
Gene Guther. He flew for Torrence the Cambell Soup guy :-)
I do remember Tony Necastro and Joe Thielmann. Both of them flew Twin
Beech's for Atlantic if I remember right.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:
>>
> The only guy I recall who had a Beech 18 operation out of Wilmington was
> Gene Guther.

He sounds familiar, but I can't put a face on him.

He flew for Torrence the Cambell Soup guy :-)
> I do remember Tony Necastro and Joe Thielmann. Both of them flew Twin
> Beech's for Atlantic if I remember right.
>


Don't think I know them. Chuck Weldon was the guy who landed in the quarry
in the 70's. He'd also flown in Korea which is why I thoughyou might have
heard of him. While suspended for crashing the Beech in Wilmigton he had
another accident landing in a snowstorm in DTW. He landed on a taxiway in
error and hit a vehicle. He also collided with a police helicopter in
Detroit City airport around 1975 and walked away from that too!

Bit of a character that everyone seems to know. He had a Beech/DC3 op in
PHL.


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>> The only guy I recall who had a Beech 18 operation out of Wilmington was
>> Gene Guther.
>
> He sounds familiar, but I can't put a face on him.
>
> He flew for Torrence the Cambell Soup guy :-)
>> I do remember Tony Necastro and Joe Thielmann. Both of them flew Twin
>> Beech's for Atlantic if I remember right.
>>
>
>
> Don't think I know them. Chuck Weldon was the guy who landed in the quarry
> in the 70's. He'd also flown in Korea which is why I thoughyou might have
> heard of him. While suspended for crashing the Beech in Wilmigton he had
> another accident landing in a snowstorm in DTW. He landed on a taxiway in
> error and hit a vehicle. He also collided with a police helicopter in
> Detroit City airport around 1975 and walked away from that too!
>
> Bit of a character that everyone seems to know. He had a Beech/DC3 op in
> PHL.

Sounds like a real "exciting fellow" :-))

I pretty much was a lone wolf in those days and didn't hang around the
airports much. I was away a lot traveling to different places where I
gave specialized instruction or I was home on the water in the boat.
I'm sure I probably ran into these guys a time or two but not being a
multi-engine type I wouldn't have paid much attention....or perhaps it
might have been the other way around :-))


--
Dudley Henriques

Okay, I'm like, two weeks late reading this thread but I'll put my two
cents in anyway. Maybe I should log in here more often.

I have a Timex Adventure Tech watch; all digital, $100US SRP.
Altimeter, two time zones, barometer (for what it's worth),
chronometer, timer, and alarm. I got it on sale two years ago on
Amazon for $60US. Checked today and Amazon is currently selling'em for
86 bucks.

I originally bought it for backcountry skiing and hiking and it works
very well, but it also is, IMHO, a good watch for flying. More
intuitive than many digital watches as far as accessing the various
functions.

Evil downside: the battery died right after I got the watch from
Amazon, but I replaced the battery and it's been working flawlessly
for almost two years now. Not so evil upside: the wrist band is hugely
adjustable and I can wear it on the outside of my fleece jacket while
skiing, but thanks to the way it adjusts it works well on my bare
naked wrist too. I'm strictly a VFR pilot and don't really use all the
functions of the watch but I believe you IFR guys might find it handy
too.

An aside: when I was a navigator flying in a gunship (AC119K) in 1972
I picked up an Omega Flightmaster watch in downtown Udorn (IIRC) for
something like $45US. Great watch, still have it. Has a second hand
that can be set (Zulu for me then) and very easy to hack to WWV, or
whatever. Later when I was a navigator in KC135's I found it perfect
for celestial navigation. Of course, that doesn't really apply to the
real world today, does it?

I still have the Flightmaster and it still works, but man, it's a
boatload on your wrist. Weighs a ton, and I now officially consider it
to be a Fashion Accessory. But, it does the trick when I want to
impress my girlfriend (also my wife; we've been married for 35 years)

Again, just my two centavos.

--Walt Weaver
Bozeman, Montana

On Nov 14, 9:51 pm, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/37qd8w
>
> For those who may be in the market for a decent pilot watch, this
> Timex Expedition is the best one I could find with all the features I
> wanted, for a reasonable ($54) price.
>
> It's got dual (actually triple) time with Zulu time accessible at the
> push of a button, countdown and -up timers, several reminder alarms, a
> built-in digital compass (that actually seems to work), and it's all
> easily readable with my old(er) eyes.
>
> The buttons are big, and the menu system is more intuitive than my
> previous watch, which was also a Timex Expedition (but a different
> model/version). It's pure digital, rather than analog/digital like I
> wanted, but I discovered that if I wanted Zulu time easily accessible
> without screwing up the date, pure digital was the only option.
>
> I looked at every pilot's watch out there, up to and including the
> Citizen, Torgoen, and all the other "hot shot pilot" watches, and IMHO
> they all suck. What blew me away was how you could easily spend as
> much as $5K on a watch that was absollutely not usable for telling
> time! To me, that's just an IQ test waiting to be failed...
>
> For $54, this relatively simple watch has every feature (well, except
> for an altimeter) that a pilot could want, a comfortable band, and it
> even looks decent. Best of all, I can buy roughly 100 of these watches
> for the cost of a single "real" pilot's watch!
>
> ;-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"